Comments on: Fuck Cameesa

By: Ray Frenden

Ray Frenden — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:12:17 +0000

I’m still smarting from $400 (not even my pricing) being “outrageously expensive.” Give me a break; le sigh.

By: Ali

Ali — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:53:40 +0000

Fair argument, saying we need to keep developing styles & new ideas for income. However, the idea that freelancers can live on skimpy-desperate-craigslist fees… well those people need to try living on that themselves. There aren’t enough hours in the week to line up the jobs necessary to pay the bills.

As for themed contests, they’re awful. Would a person work in an office all week on the chance they’ll “win” their pay at the end of the week? “Sorry, Bob won this week. Maybe next time!”

There are so many things done to artists that would never be tolerated in a salary job. But the main problem is too many artists are doing it to themselves and their peers. I know I’ve done it, when desperate. We make it possible and easy to get screwed. If the Zanes of the world couldn’t find artists who work for cheap, he’d either have to do without, or man up and pay the going rate. Most clients are not going to pay what’s fair. They’re going to pay what they can get away with.

I think what Ray is pissed off with, is that Cameesa is making it that much easier for artists to screw themselves over. Yeah, ultimately the artists are doing it to themselves, but that doesn’t make it okay to help them along that route.

By: Ray Frenden

Ray Frenden — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:46:42 +0000

Matt, the Penguin Science Fiction link on your blog is fantastic.

By: Matt

Matt — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:28:41 +0000

I love when people who have no idea the amount of time and effort that goes into an illustration/design tell you that you charge too much. That’s rich.

By: Loren E

Loren E — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:48:42 +0000

I’m a firm believer in that you (should) get what you pay for. Unfortunately, it often seems clients will sacrifice quality to save a few bucks (which only exacerbates the issue of crowdsourcing). In my opinion, Ray’s work is worth every penny to a potential client; and likewise for most designers/illustrators that value their own time and effort.

By: Ray Frenden

Ray Frenden — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:25:07 +0000

Let’s examine the RIAA/illustrator example. You’re the RIAA in the situation. I’m the creative producing content. Bands (or, in this metaphor, me) should cut out the middleman who doesn’t value our work (you) and sell our music (art/tees/products) directly.

My prices are not outrageously expensive. $400 (I actually charge more) for a tee design is less than the Graphic Artist’s Guild Pricing and Ethical Standards guide suggested an illustrator charge two editions ago.

I assume you like feeding your family, no? So do I.

By: Zane

Zane — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:13:05 +0000

This sounds like a lot of whinning, times are changing, and in a fast pace industry it is either adapt or be phased out. You have a very niche style, and as the person above me stated you need to diversify your portfolio. I still feel that for an illustration charging 400 dollars minimum is a bit high.

It is like the RIAA and MPAA, either embrace the new technologys or you’ll be left in the dust. Time to stop whinning and figure something out that’ll keep work comming in. I have hired 2 people off of Emptees and they worked out great, I would love to get work done by you if I didn’t think it would be outrageously expensive!

my .02 cents

.Zane

By: Cj

Cj — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:27:54 +0000

If freelance should die before i wake…

Perhaps the only way to go now is to join a good design firm (few and far between) or become an in-house graphic designer or somethin for a company.

Apple must have great graphic designers, for example, because all of their packaging, websites, etc., look legit.

Also, some people need to really diversify their portfolios. You’ll have trouble finding work from good clients if you only have art in one very specific style. Or try your style on different mediums. Show people how good it can look and how it can apply to their different needs.

Get extremely professional business cards with cool embellishments and get them around at the local level. Anytime someone needs help with any design or artwork you can give them your card and tell them to check out your portfolio. Freelancers also have the edge because they’re always at least a little bit cheaper than a big ass shitty design firm.

By: travis

travis — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:02:34 +0000

and then i go browse e-lance, where most of the art jobs are bid on…so now not only are we already in a field where our rates have not changed in over a decade, but now we are undercutting our worth and other artist’s worth by bidding on jobs and agreeing to far lower rates than are even livable for the work done…because of course, they are going to pick the lowest offer regardless of talent or skill. and then that guy is going to get seen and recommended and get more work. and this is why so much corporate or industry work is watered down tripe by someone with poor design skills but does it on the cheap.
after a time, the companies realize they do want edgy new visions, but then they come to us, see that we want the fair scale price, and go right back to johnny cut-n-paste. we shouldn’t be bidding on getting jobs. this is not construction where no matter who wins, they are all making the same building. if people see our work and want something about our style, THAT’s what they should be paying for. lowering our prices to get jobs does everyone harm.

sorry, i’m just pissed after browsing elance today..lol

By: Daniel Davis

Daniel Davis — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:55:37 +0000

Yep, illustration AND graphic design are in a big heap of trouble, though most practitioners don’t acknowledge/realize it. Yet.

Businesses can use a Word template to make a pdf to send to the printer. They don’t need us for technical reasons so much anymore… and crowd surfing and clipart lessen our value even more.

Young designers and dabblers are likely the ones that we need to reach with this “no spec” message.

However, that doesn’t really effect overseas folks who’ll do work for $7.

It’s a tough thing to combat. No easy fixes.