Comments on: Billabong? Billawrong!

By: Jesse

Jesse — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:32:56 +0000

great post. I deal with this all the time.

By: wotto

wotto — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:51:55 +0000

I feel a need to say something here. Telling Ray to Get a life is ridiculous and kills your credibility. Anyway spec work is stupid and a waste of time to a lot of artists. Yes in the early days when bands approached me I tried it out, but when a design got turned down and it was based around a bands name I quickly realised that it could not be reused and I had wasted hours on it.

There ended my spec work days.

Next, Threadless. No spec work. They don’t ask for specifics or a brief as such and ALL the work you do for it is sellable. In fact I have resold around 60% of all the designs I have subbed to threadless. Also it is a great way to get fast feedback from an impressive amount of artists and designers.

By: Amy

Amy — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:49 +0000

In the long run spec work only benefits the company soliciting it. Choosing to submit personal work into a community based competition site is a completely different thing. It would become spec if they asked you to design for a band like DBH have done recently. I haven’t seen any Frendenwood Mac designs floating around..the man practices what he preaches.

By: Ray Frenden

Ray Frenden — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:19:40 +0000

Well, there goes any sense of serious discussion. Way to keep things classy.

Threadless does not require specific designs skewed toward any particular brand or theme for competition. Work submitted remains the rights of the individual unless selected.

If one were to, say, enter a personal work at Threadless’ regular competition, no time or effort is lost.

Creating a specific piece of art for a specific client with no guarantee of payment and an unlikely ability to reappropriate it later (a design created for and featuring billabong text, for example), is a totally different animal. I’ve spoken at length on this in the past, but I’m betting no amount of reasoning with you would bear fruit. I’d like to kindly ask that you adopt a more civil tone should you choose to communicate further.

By: Jeet

Jeet — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:51:30 +0000

Ray.. I would just ask you to shut up !!
You yourself have submitted your designs on threadless !!
That completely scraps your claim !!

Get a life !!

By: Josh OC

Josh OC — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:00:41 +0000

Josh – There are 2 types of photo opportunity – contract (go on location) and submitted work as B posts, just like spec vs. contract work. I can see how established designers don’t like spec work, but I can also see how this could be good for fresh designers who may want to get their work seen. In a situation like the Billabong Spec work request, established guys can just pass…hopefully they have an “established” book of clients and don’t need to do work for those offering “spec” work. For those that don’t have their “established” book, then spec work might create an opportunity that may not have existed before.

Sounds like the “You hire based upon that skillset/portfolio/reputation/etc.” is the way to go…

I came to this looking to show my son some of Aaron’s work (Aaron being a friend), because my son is 7 and shows an interest in illustration. I’m trying to open his mind to lots of opportunity including illustration for film production/special effects/matte painting as well as traditional print & online design. Thanks for the insight on the whole “spec” thing.

By: mandy

mandy — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:36:51 +0000

Unless I’m reading the quoted text all wrong and we agree. Then just skip to paragraph two.

By: mandy

mandy — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:35:13 +0000

The people requesting the spec work get paid for their time soliciting it.. yet they don’t feel the need to respect an entire industry and follow a fairly simple protocol?

I’d say that Billabong is the one not following fairly simple industry protocol. Chances are, they’ll end up making more (both monetarily and recognition-wise) off of the illustration than the artist does, so they are the ones that need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Collaborate with an artist you feel has the technical merit and the ability to compromise their style (should that be an issue) instead of BCCing a bunch and hoping to win the lottery with one.

By: Sid

Sid — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:36:45 +0000

You legend Ray. I was doing regular work for a merch’ company when they decided to throw open their doors to spec and I found myself being group emailed en masse with a generic request. For months I watched declined design after declined design appear on a certain website : ‘rejected design for sale’. Months later I was contacted directly by the fed up merch’ company asking to do them a design, with kill fee as they weren’t getting what they wanted. Its what happens when you leave a big band open to beginner artists. Sadly the band are no longer with that merch’ company as they messed up waaahahaha

By: Josh

Josh — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:32:04 +0000

Looks like the Billabong crew learned how to use Google.

B. Your statement is ridiculous. Snapping a hundred ‘surf shots’ in a day, is not the same as laboring over an illustration for a week. And when they solicit FREE work to see if it’ll work for them, they don’t just want some sample sketches, which would be the norm for the start of an actual paid gig.

Your photography example also contradicts itself. Do you think any well respected photographer would go out and shoot for free and then solicit their photos to mags in hopes of people buying one? They get paid to go on location, their expenses are reimbursed, and they are paid for completion of the project.

If you’re in high school / college and taking pics of your friends and potentially getting into a Billabong ad is your goal / idea of having fun, great, go for it. That’s not a career though and to try and get free work from people who do this as a career is rather pathetic. The people requesting the spec work get paid for their time soliciting it.. yet they don’t feel the need to respect an entire industry and follow a fairly simple protocol?