Billabong? Billawrong!

Spec works really suck!
That’s pretty much why I don’t illustrate anymore.

I’m even thinking about trashing my brand new Billabong surf shorts I bought a couple of weeks ago..

Wow, bold move posting the email and the PDF on your site Ray. However, I think it will only help their cause. I expect people who were not “invited” are jumping to do designs for Billabong right now and will gleefully download the PDF you upload and send Aaron their designs. So they could possibly discover new and hidden talent that they can exploit this way.

That might happen, Jeff, but I think, Ray was absolutely right posting it. This guy Aaron and others like him will read it here or over at emptees, where people (half of the designers there got the same mail) are discussing it. This is after all not very positive for the reputation of a brand like Billabong…

I think you are being too harsh on him. Maybe he has some sort of medical condition that prevents him from doing ethical business. It might not be his fault.

good call Ray. This is slave labor at it’s finest. I’m surprised they didn’t have a “competition” on their website. “Be a BillUstrator”

Really disappointed to learn this about Billabong. Like they can’t afford to pay their artists? They just lost my business.

But guys, c’mon, the are going to pay industry standard rates!!! I can just see Adam’s mailbox overflowing with college hopefuls who can’t get enough skull drawing in their life drawing classes!

Billanot!
Watch out people!
I’ve worked with Billabong in the past…
Not saying the art staff over their are all bad….but they do occasionally cross the lines….Understand…They are pressured to complete X amount of graphics within a certain amount of time and by season…..Sales reps/Managers are always on their backs……lot of BS and stress….They usually have to design specifically for about 20+ different retail areas (Pacsun, Buckle, Macys, etc..etc.)……I’m really surprised some of those same guys are still working their…….I guess they are the typical monkeys waiting for a pay check every two weeks..
Start your own thing people!

btw
Props to you Frenden for posting this!
Keep up the great work!

Good post Ray

I read that Dave Gibbons of Watchman fame uses manga studio – he loves it! Read the article, thought of you, heres the link if you are interested:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/12/dave-gibbons-watchmen-interview

hope all is well

franks

Thanks for holding the torch Ray. I’ll bring my pitchfork. :)

Got this same email from Billabong too Ray….and saw what you said on my twitter about not sending them anything….I thought it was legit, i figured that got it from von zipper when i did work for them since its their sister company…oh well! shattered hopes..lol

[...] This post was Twitted by taylordesign [...]

I can’t speak for Illustrators, but I can’t speak about Aaron’s character. Did you ever call him? I live in Orange County and there are a lot of surf/skate companies that are homed here. Aaron is a great guy and you WON’T meet a nicer and more genuine guy. If you called him and explained your “issues”, he’d listen. He’s not looking to EXPLOIT Illustrators. I can’t speak for “other” companies, because they may be bad. It only takes a few bad apple to ruin the whole bunch. It doens’t mean that all apples are bad.

From the outside – (and that probable fact that you haven’t even recieved a email asking to pull the information), it looks like Billabong has a culture that’s pretty open and laid back (that was the sense I got when I visit them 9 years ago, when Aaron started there.)

Chill with the hate…it doesn’t do anybody any good. If you have problems, fix them.

Pointing out exploitative business practices isn’t hate.

Can you imagine approaching a plumber or a mechanic with the same type of proposal Billabong sends to its freelancers?

Chances are you’d end up with a wrench to the neck.

If you call a plumber to “access” the situation, they will come out and do it for FREE, as most services do (lawyer, CPA, financial advisor, etc). If Billabong was looking to hire some new/fresh talent and wanted to see what you can do “with the situation”, how is this any different? Example: If all you can draw / like to draw is things with typography or things with faces and they are looking for something for a match…wouldn’t spec work around a common goal be a great way to determine if an Illustrator has what they are looking for? It would only be exploitative if they didn’t pay you for work that you produced, liked it, and USED it without any compensation to the creator. If you don’t spec work, what solution do you have to replace spec work? I’d like to know what other methods would work just as well…

This call is for free art. Dogg’s example stands. Nothing needs to replace Spec work. It doesn’t need to exist. Hire artists based one existing work. Not rocket science.

Did you guys even read the PDF? It says your art will be reviewed and then purchased if it fits in with the line.

Are you saying that your such a good artist that you are automatically entitled to be paid even if your illustration doesn’t fit that seasons visual style?

Just because you produced a piece of work doesn’t mean it’s good or that it fits the overall plan of a clothing line. Try to think of your illustrations as the surf shots that are submitted from many many photographers on a daily basis. A low rez .jpeg is recieved to help plan where it might fit in the ad campaign. Sometimes it’s what they are lookign for and it’s then purchased. Othertimes it’s not and passed on, even if the shot is amaizing, it may be that they already have 4 shots of Andy ripping a cutty at pipe.

Your art is just one element in an overall design, get over yourself.

You’re missing the point.

Hey just to put you in the picture, Billabong approached me too but not for specwork, they bought one of my existing designs and I didn’t find them hard to work with.

Just my 2 cents, you know how much I hate spec work too Ray.

>If you don’t spec work, what solution do you have to replace spec work?

Isn’t that what your portfolio, and your entire body of work, represents?

If you hire Ray (or any other established illustrator), you’ve got a pretty great idea of what kind of work he does. It’s why he has a portfolio in the first place. You hire based upon that skillset/portfolio/reputation/etc.

I’m sure that Aaron isn’t evil; but the whole “design = contest” thing is killing illustration and design.

Looks like the Billabong crew learned how to use Google.

B. Your statement is ridiculous. Snapping a hundred ’surf shots’ in a day, is not the same as laboring over an illustration for a week. And when they solicit FREE work to see if it’ll work for them, they don’t just want some sample sketches, which would be the norm for the start of an actual paid gig.

Your photography example also contradicts itself. Do you think any well respected photographer would go out and shoot for free and then solicit their photos to mags in hopes of people buying one? They get paid to go on location, their expenses are reimbursed, and they are paid for completion of the project.

If you’re in high school / college and taking pics of your friends and potentially getting into a Billabong ad is your goal / idea of having fun, great, go for it. That’s not a career though and to try and get free work from people who do this as a career is rather pathetic. The people requesting the spec work get paid for their time soliciting it.. yet they don’t feel the need to respect an entire industry and follow a fairly simple protocol?

You legend Ray. I was doing regular work for a merch’ company when they decided to throw open their doors to spec and I found myself being group emailed en masse with a generic request. For months I watched declined design after declined design appear on a certain website : ‘rejected design for sale’. Months later I was contacted directly by the fed up merch’ company asking to do them a design, with kill fee as they weren’t getting what they wanted. Its what happens when you leave a big band open to beginner artists. Sadly the band are no longer with that merch’ company as they messed up waaahahaha

The people requesting the spec work get paid for their time soliciting it.. yet they don’t feel the need to respect an entire industry and follow a fairly simple protocol?

I’d say that Billabong is the one not following fairly simple industry protocol. Chances are, they’ll end up making more (both monetarily and recognition-wise) off of the illustration than the artist does, so they are the ones that need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Collaborate with an artist you feel has the technical merit and the ability to compromise their style (should that be an issue) instead of BCCing a bunch and hoping to win the lottery with one.

Unless I’m reading the quoted text all wrong and we agree. Then just skip to paragraph two.

Josh – There are 2 types of photo opportunity – contract (go on location) and submitted work as B posts, just like spec vs. contract work. I can see how established designers don’t like spec work, but I can also see how this could be good for fresh designers who may want to get their work seen. In a situation like the Billabong Spec work request, established guys can just pass…hopefully they have an “established” book of clients and don’t need to do work for those offering “spec” work. For those that don’t have their “established” book, then spec work might create an opportunity that may not have existed before.

Sounds like the “You hire based upon that skillset/portfolio/reputation/etc.” is the way to go…

I came to this looking to show my son some of Aaron’s work (Aaron being a friend), because my son is 7 and shows an interest in illustration. I’m trying to open his mind to lots of opportunity including illustration for film production/special effects/matte painting as well as traditional print & online design. Thanks for the insight on the whole “spec” thing.

Ray.. I would just ask you to shut up !!
You yourself have submitted your designs on threadless !!
That completely scraps your claim !!

Get a life !!

Well, there goes any sense of serious discussion. Way to keep things classy.

Threadless does not require specific designs skewed toward any particular brand or theme for competition. Work submitted remains the rights of the individual unless selected.

If one were to, say, enter a personal work at Threadless’ regular competition, no time or effort is lost.

Creating a specific piece of art for a specific client with no guarantee of payment and an unlikely ability to reappropriate it later (a design created for and featuring billabong text, for example), is a totally different animal. I’ve spoken at length on this in the past, but I’m betting no amount of reasoning with you would bear fruit. I’d like to kindly ask that you adopt a more civil tone should you choose to communicate further.

In the long run spec work only benefits the company soliciting it. Choosing to submit personal work into a community based competition site is a completely different thing. It would become spec if they asked you to design for a band like DBH have done recently. I haven’t seen any Frendenwood Mac designs floating around..the man practices what he preaches.

I feel a need to say something here. Telling Ray to Get a life is ridiculous and kills your credibility. Anyway spec work is stupid and a waste of time to a lot of artists. Yes in the early days when bands approached me I tried it out, but when a design got turned down and it was based around a bands name I quickly realised that it could not be reused and I had wasted hours on it.

There ended my spec work days.

Next, Threadless. No spec work. They don’t ask for specifics or a brief as such and ALL the work you do for it is sellable. In fact I have resold around 60% of all the designs I have subbed to threadless. Also it is a great way to get fast feedback from an impressive amount of artists and designers.